lusterniafandomcom-20200216-history
Report 1467
Report #1467 Skillset: Telekinesis Skill: Clot Org: Pyromancers Status: Completed Mar 2016 Furies' Decision: Solution 2. Problem: The change to the burst vessel numbers in previous reports (which was needed), curing vessels now comfortably outpaces curing vessels even with throatlock and trip, and clots provide no realistic solution to this in its current form. Burst vessels are cured with healing sips and sparkles, where as clots are yarrow which can't be stacked as a cure by Telekinesis. There is also no synergy between the two, as you can cure a clot with yarrow, and will be able to immediately cure a vessel. This change is to make vessel building viable, but through the application of clots rather than the old way where vessels outpaced curing. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Move CLOT to the same cure as burst vessels: health sip and sparkleberry. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Make clots hidden, they will provide no affliction message, but they will provide a message when cured. Move clot curing to a dust cure and off the old cure (yarrow). 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Either solution 1 or 2 (but not both), and additionally, a clot will do 300 bleeding (not reoccuring) when applied. Player Comments: ---on 3/14 @ 10:51 writes: Solution 2, I feel it fits with the original intent a little better. ---on 3/14 @ 12:22 writes: Moving anything to the dust balance needs to bear in mind the fact that paralysis is in that cure tree. Stacking it with paralysis almost always means that the clot will stay on the target for an extra cure balance because paralysis is a super high priority affliction. Luckily, telekinetic mages (as far as I know), do not have a means to consistently deal paralysis except via beast spit (or animateddagger, but that is a locked ability that only uses the same channel as bloodclot, so they can't be used together). That's the only saving grace at the moment - should this change, or should my understanding be wrong, then we'll definitely want to more closely reconsider this. As is, I would prefer solution 1 - bearing in mind that bloodclots also lengthen sip balances, a single successful bloodclot (requiring only 2 vessels at time of cast) will already set the opponent back by blocking off a vessel cure AND lengthening how long it takes before they can sip to cure again, building both bleed (mana) pressure as well as giving a boost to vessel momentum. I believe this should be sufficient to make bloodclot relevant again - which is the problem statement - without adding a possible paralysis+bloodclot headache to the dust queue. ---on 3/14 @ 21:36 writes: We can consider ice instead of dust bearing in mind it'll be great for some guilds (Pyros) and so so for others, but will also stack with limb breaks available in TK. ---on 3/22 @ 10:46 writes: I don't miss old TK dominance but I also prefer solution 2. Solution 1 I think will also be fine but I am definitely against solution 3, because if we fix the core issue of TK's ability to stack bursts then they won't need adidtional sources of bleeding. As an aside, to make this more overhaul-y can we collapse clots into one stacking affliction instead of having 4 affs (one for each limb)? The imagery of the clots on a specific limb was cool but there is nothing mechanically (that I know of) that plays off of the fact that a given limb has a clot in it. ---on 3/22 @ 14:06 writes: Sol 2 is fine, I agree that sol 3 is unneeded. I think dust is ok, but would be open to other balances as well. I also agree with @Wobou that it'd be better to change clots to a single stacking affliction, to make focusing on them easier with the new cure focues. ---on 3/22 @ 23:08 writes: Solution three is because mana and health pools are all higher across the board, lowering the effectiveness of bleeding drastically. I'm okay with collapsing clots to be a single affliction. ---on 3/23 @ 18:09 writes: Would you be amenable to solution 2 giving a symptom line when a clot causes healing and sparkleberry to fail? There isn't one right now. ---on 3/24 @ 00:46 writes: Would really defeat a lot of the purpose. ---on 3/24 @ 23:05 writes: I'm really not crazy about making clots not have ANY messages besides a cure message. From the perspective of the person curing it, it just ends up being a very sloppy situation to deal with and might necessitate more diagnosing against a TK that is warranted for a psionic offense (which is fairly hard to hinder). In addition, solution 1 would end up slowing down burst curing way too much to be balanced here. It would just end up reintroducing the problem of bursts being overwhelming, but just changing the method...I'm alright with moving clots to dust since we pretty much might have to with the overhaul initiative unfortunately, but the solutions as presented here don't seem favourable. ---on 3/25 @ 00:22 writes: Then we can move it to dust so it stacks with TK offense and give it lines. Masking it, then giving it a failed cure line undermines the entire purpose of the change since the cure is on a different balance. You fail the cure which is going to be spammed, then you immediately cure the clot. It's going to slow vessel curing only marginally. I'm open to it if we also include solution three. ---on 3/27 @ 14:10 writes: Wouldn't there already be a failed cure line in that it didn't cure a vessel? ---on 3/28 @ 00:56 writes: How would you know the difference between not having any vessels to cure, and clots preventing you curing a vessel? ---on 3/28 @ 04:44 writes: Because vessels give an affliction line, and that's not changing. ---on 3/30 @ 00:52 writes: Solution 1 seems to me to have the potential to be too centralising in strategy, in that it'd be optimal to just clot every combo, without much timing needed. Moving it to dust gives some more meaningful choice and timing. I don't think having it stack with paralysis or other dust things is too much of a problem as TK already has good ways to hinder dust curing while pushing bursts. I also like Solution 3 in principle, though maybe lower it to ~200. ---on 3/30 @ 23:49 writes: I'm okay with 150-200 bleeding. I'll update the solutions ---on 3/30 @ 23:49 writes: JK forgot it's finalized. 150-200 bleeding is fine with me. ---on 3/30 @ 23:53 writes: Yeah, you would ideally be keeping track of vessels when you have some. There is a line when you completely cure vessels that is separate from just curing a vessel but still having them right? So as long as you think you have vessels and you are curing and not getting a cure line, you can assume clots